Op 25 februari 2016 heeft [A] telefonisch een gesprek gevoerd met [B] , welk gesprek hij heeft opgenomen. Tijdens het gesprek is -onder meer- het
volgende gezegd:
“[B] : You are looking to uhm rebrand your ... your ... your company, as I understand it?
[A] : Yes.
[B] : And ... uhm ... you ... you want to make use of the name Tom.
[A] : Yes, that is correct, yeah.
[B] : Okay. Uhm, can you explain to me, I’m a bit, I’m a bit confused ‘cause I have looked at some of the stuff that you’re doing and around your fuel [... ? ...] and stuff like that and that to my mind sits uncomfortably close with a number of initiatives that ... that we have. Uhm, so I’m just ... uhm, where, why Tom? Uhm, do you have some history with this name? What ... what’s the ... what’s the connection?
[A] : Yes. Well, I’ve ... I’ve ... uhm ... uhm ... I have explained that in my uhm, e-mail uhm, to uhm [C] and ... I understood he, he forwarded this email to you, and two days ago, I ...
[B] : Uhm ... yeah, we ‘ve ... was that in Dutch?
[A] : No, it was in, in English.
[B] : In English, okay no, I am uhm I’m sorry, I haven ‘t uhm picked up on that.
(...)
[B] : Perhaps you can explain.
[A] : Yeah, sure. Uhm ... Uhm, we are using, uhm, the name Tom uhmfor a few years now and we, we ‘ve also registered uhm ... Tom de Ridder as a, as a brand name. Tom de Ridder is our uhm- Tom the Knight, in English, hahaha, but, but in Dutch it’s Tom de Ridder- uhm and he is our uhm ... advertising uhm ... character, for a few years now in a, in a massive uhm, radio campaign in the Netherlands.
(...)
And ... uhm ... we, we want to maintain, uhm, the brand awareness of uhm, of Tom. Uhm, but we want to, to change our brand values: we will become a social enterprise. Uhm ... right now we are uhm, uhm product oriented: uhm, our product is a payment card .. uhm ... for the gasoline ... uhm, market ...
(...)
... uhm specifically aimed at small entrepreneurs.
(...)
... and uhm ... Tom de Ridder is now, uhm, ja known as as the advertising character that tries to force you to, to buy this uhm payment card And. .. uhm ... we will become a social enterprise that is a, a facilitator of, of, of a community of 50.000 uhm entrepreneurs, uhm, that are our customer right now. And uhm, we, we hope to enable this community to, to, to strengthen each other as, as an entrepreneur ... Uhm ... where as our, our services in, in uhm ... in the payment, uhm ... with, with the payment card, yeah, will become more of a, a side activity almost, huh.
(...)
So it is quite a, a, a big change in uhm empha ... emphasis where, where uhm ... the brand positioning is uhm involved.
[B] : Oh okay ... So what you are actually going to be doing under the Tom brand? You say uhm, uhm, uhm ... can you, can you [ .. ? ... see if ... ? ... eaches out and ... ? …]. Uhm ... how are you reaching them, I mean, are you selling them things? Are you ...
[A] : Yeah we have a payment relationship with them because we uhm, process their uhm, their transactions on gasoline and ... carwash and ... parking: both parking in the streets ... as uhm parking in, uhm, garages. Uhm ... and in the future uhm, we will, uhm … possibly extend this to uhm, uhm, the, the ... how do I say it, uhm ... to, to electricity for ....
(...) [A] : Oh, okay, well ... electricity for uhm, electric vehicles, so car charging and .. uhm ... as, as a big innovation for in like, like two or three years, we would like to ... uhm, process also payments in uhm ... restaurants, uhm - another important area where, where the small entrepreneur has a lot of sales slips that he wants to get, get rid of. Because that’s, that ‘s the core of our, our uhm ... value proposition: that is that you can throw away all the sale slips and get one monthly income statement.
[B] : Yeah, I understand, I understand. Okay well, on the sign-up side of it, I don ‘t really have a problem but what has anything to do ... with for example ... elec ... electric cars and, and things like that, that’s where I uhm I become extremely uncomfortable. Uhm, we haven’t seen any example of, of uhm ... logo’s that you were talking about ... uhm is, is that sornething you are able to share with us?
[A] : Yeah, absolutely, but uhm ... we are starting, uhm, the design process right now. One week ago, our ...
(...)
[B] : But, uhm ja, I mean, as I think uhm [C] [ [C] ; hof] probably indicated to you, anything to do with the name Tom I, I get very uhm ... uhm, my, my uhm, the, the hairs on the back of my head stand up. Uhm ...
(...) A : So it’s really making sure that what you are doing doesn’t touch on anything that we are doing ...
(...)
[B] : .... or we are going to do, but also that your uhm, your brand doesn ‘t look like and would never be confused with anything ...
[A] : Absolutely.
(...)
[A] : Yeah. That’s why I, that’s why I contacted uhm [C] [ [C] ; hof]. Uhm ... he, he, he, he didn’t tell me about your, uhm, your worries though, yet ...
[B] : Ja. I, I mean uhm, it, uhm ... I can understand what you are doing, and, and why you are doing it, uhm and, and to me, it’s just making sure that you look, you know, completely different. But if you are moving away from uhm this…
[A] : I agree.
(...)
[B] : (…) I understand that. Uhm, but, but one of the things that I picked up, (...) there is an awful lot of uhm, uhm, uhm, negativity around the, the Tom the Rider uhm brand which, uhm, I’m surprised that, that, that... Perhaps ... you, you, you did a néw venture and you want to follow through that. But obviously that is the branding thing you need to think about. I need to see what is it you want to do with this, uhm, logo.
(...)
[B] : Uhm, because if, if I’m comfortable enough ... If they can make it look like something that is só far away from what we do, then, then I can be comfortable, but I would want ...
(... )
[B] : uhm, uhm, a, a, an Agreement between us that you wouldn’t extent the, ehm, ehm, into ehm anything that, that, that we do, and ...
(...)
[B] : ... we often do this, we ...
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[B] : ... call this a Coexistence Agreement, to ...
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[B] : ... make sure that ... you don ‘t uhm suddenly start doing anything that, that is more auto ... automotive based.
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[A] : ... and you would help ús if uhm, not only you can give uhm feed, feedback on the logo designs we will create the coming weeks ...
(...)
[B] : Ja, I understand. And, and, and thank you for, for approaching it uhm in that way. I think what we need to do is ... We, we need to start seeing some ideas, uhm, and then when we can find something that we all are happy with, and, you know, you, you’re happy about, and we can live with, then we will draw up an agreement.
[A] : Sure, nice. Yeah! Alright.
(...)
[A] : Right. Yeah. And, the, the thing is, [B], it’s, it’s good to know that we, we have been the biggest radio advertiser, uhm, for, for uhm many months in, in the past few years. So we’ve made a lót of radio advertising with Tom de Ridder and uhm, the last three years I think, maybe four years, uhm, we, we started to use the abbreviation uhm to uhm Tom because everybody knew Tom de Ridder, so we could start to, to call him uhm Tom, and I ...
(...)
[A] : … have never ever really encountered somebody who had an association with TomTom. Because our Tom is not a device or a service but it’s a, it’s a ...
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[A] : ... it’s a person, you know. It’s, it’s ...
[B] : You, you, you appreciate, you do appreciate that you are not […autonomous?...]. TomTom is, is, uhm, is active in a lot of are as, you know ...
[A] : Yeah.
[B] : ... it’s not that we ‘re talking about navigation devices, we’re active in an awful lot of areas.
[A] : Alright. Yeah.
(...)
[B] : So I just have to keep a weather eye. It’s very important to me ...
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[B] :: ... that, uhm, you, you’re going to go ahead and, and we can find uhm a logo that, that, uhm, doesn’t, uhm, cause any problems this end.
[A] : Yeah.
[B] : We are willing to [...work?...] on a Cooperation Agreement and, and that will... limit anybody from coming info any of the are as that, that we are ... that we operate in.
[A] : Alright. Ja. Okay.
[B] : So that everybody knows where they stand up from, so that, that, that’s a good thing.
(...)
[B] : Okay, alright then, well I look forward to uhm receiving uhm some uhm ideas from you and your logo and uhm, and then see if we can sort this out very quickly.
[A] : Yeah. And could you, uhm, please provide me with, you know, some, some brand manual or whatever, some description of what the TomTom brand is, in, in all its visual appearances?
[B] : Well if, if you uhm just send your, your agency come to our website, they should be able to pick that up.
(...)”